Last October, Tina injured her back while traveling. At first, it didn’t seem like a big deal. She had experienced minor back pain before, and it usually resolved with rest. This time was different.

What started as a small issue turned into weeks, then months, of persistent pain. Activities she loved—running and strength training—became too painful to continue. She began to wonder if that chapter of her life was behind her.

By January, she decided it was time to seek help and began working with a chiropractor. What followed was a slow and often frustrating road to recovery. After three and a half months of consistent work, she is now—very gradually—easing back into her routine.

She’s not fully recovered. But she feels hopeful again.

More importantly, the experience changed how she thinks about her body, her workouts, and the aging process itself.

In today’s episode, Tina shares her recovery journey and the lessons she’s taking with her:

• The importance of seeking care sooner rather than later

• Following professional guidance, even when progress feels slow

• Resisting the urge to self-diagnose through the internet

• Staying flexible in how you approach movement during recovery

• Listening to your body—really listening

• Recognizing that recovery often takes longer as we age

• Prioritizing stretching and dynamic warm-ups

• Accepting that your body may not be as resilient as it once was—and learning to work with it, not against it

Sometimes the hardest part of staying active isn’t pushing forward—it’s learning when to slow down.

Most people are familiar with the term “life coach,” but we wondered—how many actually understand what a life coach actually does? And when it might be helpful?

Because so many of our conversations here at Messy Middlescence center around transition, change, and reinvention, this felt like an important topic to explore.

And, as it turns out, we have our own certified life coach right here.

In this episode, Tina interviews Tara about her path into life coaching, what it really looks like in practice, and how it can support people during times of change—or even when you’re not quite sure what you want, but you know something needs to shift.

We talk through:

• Why Tara chose to become a life coach—and the experiences that shaped that decision
• The differences between a life coach, therapist, and consultant
• Common situations where coaching can be especially helpful
• How to find a coach who’s the right fit for you
• The different specialties within life coaching
• What Tara has learned—both from her training and from working with her own coaches
• How coaching sessions are typically structured
• The role of clarity—understanding what you really want and how to move toward it
• And why, in an ideal world, everyone might benefit from having a coach.

Growing up, some of our most consistent and memorable family moments of connection came from sitting around a table playing cards or a round of Trivial Pursuit. There wasn’t anything particularly elaborate about it (although it sometimes got competitive), but there was something about having a shared activity that made being together feel fun and natural.

It feels like games are making a quiet comeback. And maybe that’s because they offer something many of us are craving—a low-effort way to connect in a world that often feels so busy and digital.

Games give you something to do while you’re together. They take the pressure off needing to carry the conversation. Whether it’s a quick card game, a weekly trivia night, or something as simple as Jenga or ping pong, they create space for connection in a way that feels light and approachable.

In this episode, we talk about the games we’ve loved over the years—both growing up and now with our own families—as well as a few we’re curious to try. We also share what we’ve noticed about how different games fit different groups, moods, and stages of life.

Our hope is that this conversation reminds you that connection doesn’t have to be complicated. Sometimes it’s as simple as pulling out a deck of cards and inviting someone to join you.

The desire to reinvent oneself, one’s mindset or one’s career can happen at any age. Most of us have experienced this desire at some point in our lives and it can be the motivation for significant change. But true reinvention, the kind that leads to meaningful, lasting change, is much more unusual. And perhaps that is where the “magic” comes in.

True reinvention requires something deeper than hard work and determination. It asks us to listen to that quiet inner voice, the one that is so often drowned out by fear, societal pressures and existing responsibilities. Learning to hear and trust that voice is what makes real transformation possible.

Today we speak with Lisa Kramer, founder and president of Leading with Intention who has followed that inner voice time and again — successfully reinventing her professional life multiple times along the way.

In our conversation, Lisa shares her own experiences with reinvention as well as the work she does supporting others through similar transitions. Her recent pivot to retirement coaching focuses on helping individuals and couples design their next chapter with intention and clarity which feels relevant to anyone navigating change.

Lisa brings both honesty and wisdom to this conversation. She helps us see that reinvention is both practical and, in its own way, a little bit magical.

In this episode, we explore:

• How Lisa’s background in social work shaped her approach as a coach
• The role of relationships, connection, and community especially as we age
• Her experiences navigating the challenges of an aging parent and what supported her most
• How creating a personal manifesto can offer clarity and direction
• The idea of “purpose with a little “p” and why it can feel more accessible and fulfilling.
• The difficulty, and necessity, of letting go of identity at different stages of life
• Why reinvention is so hard": there is no formula, no clear path and no “instruction manual”
• How fear and discomfort show up in times of change and why the outcome often surprises us

“What is your earliest memory of money?”

It’s a question often used by financial advisors to help uncover how early experiences may have shaped someone’s views about money. Carl described it as a simple but powerful way to begin meaningful conversations about money — without stress or conflict.

And honestly, it’s also just interesting. Even a little fun.

This seemingly simple question can be a gateway to learning more about yourself — or about someone you love. What surprised us most wasn’t just the memories themselves — but the emotions that came with them.

Tara, who works as both a financial advisor and life coach, has encountered this question many times in her work. Tina, on the other hand, had never heard it before and had never really considered it.

So they decided to explore it together — especially as siblings who grew up in the same household — and share their own earliest money memories and how those experiences may have shaped their attitudes and emotions around money.

In this short episode, they discuss:

• The emotions intertwined with early money memories — and the lasting impact those emotions can have

• The tension between joy and abundance on one hand, and responsibility and respect on the other

• How money can become a source of marital tension — and the roles we often bring into relationships such as “spender” or “saver”

• The realization that many of our assumptions and beliefs about money are deeply buried and internalized

• The social norms around money — and how those norms vary across families and cultures

Topics discussed today include:

• What Long-Term Care actually covers and what it does not;
• The difference between mortality (life insurance) and morbidity (LTC)
• Why underwriting for LTC is often stricter than life insurance and some of the possible reasons people are denied LTC;
• Traditional vs. hybrid LTC policies — and why products have evolved;
• What are the 4 key parts to a Long Term Care Policy;
• When to start the conversation (hint: earlier than you think);
• Why statistics around LTC can be misleading;
• The biggest misconceptions (Medicare does not cover extended custodial care) about LTC;
• How to think about self-funding vs. transferring risk;
• What happens when one spouse needs care and the other remains at home;
• Why “something is better than nothing”
• The benefits of working with a knowledgeable agent
• The first steps in purchasing a LTC policy

For the past two seasons of Messy Middlescence, Tara and Tina have shared their personal themes and words for the year ahead, and they continue that tradition in today’s short (but sweet) episode. Together, they reflect on their chosen words and the intentions behind them along with the changes and enrichment they hope it will help bring them throughout the upcoming year.

• Cindy’s background and interests including a Master’s in Kinesiology and a nursing degree;
• What exactly “Zone 2” is during exercise/workouts and why it becomes so important as we age (particularly for women);
• Why you might want to consider modifying your exercise routine to include more strength/weight training than high-intensity cardio;
• The unintentional and intentional changes that occur to our eating habits/diets as we age;
• How cosmetic dermatology procedures can help aging skin including a discussion of laser treatments such as IPL and BBL;
• Cindy’s skincare and exercise routines ;
• The significant impact of stress on our health and the necessity of self-care and how this is unique to each of us (and can change over time);
• How “steady good sleep” continues to elude most of us in our 50’s;
• How research continues to upend many of the ideas instilled in us when we were young (such as carbs being good and fats being bad or the importance of high intensity workouts).

You might remember a similar episode from their first season, and this felt like the perfect moment to do it again. Tara and Tina discuss their favorite things from the past year — the items and small discoveries that genuinely made a positive difference in their lives.

They hope this episode nudges you to reflect on — and share — the things that brought you joy in 2025.

And if you're curious about any of the items mentioned, you can find links to everything in the show notes on the Messy Middlescence website.

Earlier this fall, Tina accidentally found herself following Samin Nosrat’s entire media tour. Nosrat — the author of the bestselling cookbook and Netflix series Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat — has a new cookbook out called Good Things, and by pure coincidence Tina kept stumbling onto interviews, articles, and podcasts about her. What stayed with her wasn’t the recipes. It was the message underneath them. In each interview and article, Nosrat tells the same story with the same message. She describes how after years of work she finally achieved everything she had ever dreamed of with Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat — and yet she was completely miserable. A regularly scheduled dinner party literally saved her life. She learned that gathering the people you care about is essential to a meaningful life. And the focus of her new book is all about bringing people together. Gathering is what is important and needed in our lives — it is not the food, not the table, nor all the little details we can get hung up on. Her eloquent and persuasive advocacy for connecting through regular gatherings is downright compelling.

Around the same time, Tara came across an article in The Atlantic titled “Americans Need to Party More,” which stated that “only 4% of Americans attended or hosted a social event on an average weekend or holiday in 2023.” According to the article, this is a 35% decrease since 2004. Both Tina and Tara were shocked by this statistic.

And here’s where the tension comes in. We both love the idea of a gathering ritual — something steady, comforting, simple, and woven into the rhythm of our lives. It sounds beautiful and grounding. But when we think about our own schedules, energy levels, families, and the very real anxieties we each have around hosting, it suddenly feels incredibly challenging. We want this… and yet we struggle to make it happen. That tension is at the heart of this episode.

It is easy to believe Samin Nosrat’s claim that a regular or ritual gathering can be profoundly life-changing. That is not a  hard sell. But the stark reality is that people seem to be socializing less. If that 4% figure is true — why do people not entertain more? What keeps us from opening our homes and inviting those we have connections with (or want to connect with) to gather? Tina and Tara turn those questions on themselves and discuss their own patterns around hosting – what we enjoy, what stresses us out and what gets in the way. They discuss the pressure to “perform” and the beautiful possibility of gathering friends and family without perfection.

Some of the topics discussed today include:

 • how frequently we really entertain friends and family

 • the parts of hosting we love — and the parts we dread

 • the sources of anxiety around opening our homes

 • the time, energy, and logistical constraints that make it hard

 • the pressure of social media and comparison

 • why ritualized gatherings used to be more common

 • the truth behind “perfect is the enemy of good”

 • and simple, imperfect ways to gather that aren’t dinner parties

Carl who? – you might ask.

Tina asked Tara that exact question when Tara – breathless with excitement – informed her over the summer that she had secured an interview with Carl. It turns out Tina did know of him through his 50 Fires podcast (which Tara often refers to here on Messy Middlescence) but was unaware of the VERY BIG DEAL that Carl Richards is in the world of finance/financial advising.

When you listen to the interview today, you will quickly understand why. This 27 minute interview is packed with an amazing amount of story-telling, practical advice, and interesting outlooks and ideas.

Carl Richards is the beloved “Sketch Guy” from The New York Times, a bestselling author, speaker, and host of Behavior Gap Radio and 50 Fires podcasts.

He is also smack in the middle of middle age which is the primary focus of this interview and differentiates our conversation from the many others he has done recently for his new book, Your Money: Reimagining Wealth in 101 Simple Sketches.

Tara and Tina discuss with Carl many of the complex yet common issues of mid-life which showcase his financial insights along with his creative (yet often simple) solutions. Carl has a unique perspective on most things which are guaranteed to make you think.

Some of the topics covered today include:

• The most common question Carl receives from successful people as they progress through middle age
• Carl’s “Project Half Life”; what it is and its value in Carl’s life
• How those approaching retirement can help themselves feel less “stuck”
• The concept of having your future (regardless of age) be bigger than your past
• The importance of having interests/hobbies/connections beyond work before you retire
• How his advice is often simple but not easy; that sometimes the most difficult part is giving yourself permission to think differently
• The shifts that mid-life is bringing to Carl
• The beauty in breaking things down and starting small regardless of the problem
• The recommended first question to ask those close to you about money
• And what it really means to live with tension — not trying to solve the mess, but learning to sit within it

With wisdom, humor, and humility, Carl reminds us that “money is just a door to meaning,” and that midlife isn’t an ending — it’s an invitation to start again, one small step at a time.

 Tara and Tina invited Shannon to talk about connection as part of this season’s theme, but what unfolded was a conversation about something even more universal — reconnection. Shannon opens up about the ways we can lose touch with friends through family obligations, time constraints, and life transitions, and how hard it can be to rebuild those bonds later in life.

Like so many of us in midlife, Shannon realized, “We’re all looking for our friends again.” Hearing someone so outgoing and social talk about loneliness and rediscovery is both comforting and eye-opening — a reminder that even the most connected among us can feel disconnected at times.

The conversation is both hopeful and deeply encouraging. Shannon shares the small, intentional steps she’s taking to make new connections and rekindle old ones, showing that sometimes all it takes is a simple “yes” to an invitation or an unexpected moment of courage.

Highlights include:

• The trap of thinking “I’m going to have more time” as we get older

• The importance of having local friends separate from family

• The patience and persistence it takes to build lasting friendships

• The many forms of service and how they foster connection

• Shannon’s discovery of Impact 100 and community giving

• Friendship rituals that keep relationships alive

• How easy it can be to reach out — and how hard it can be to actually do it

• The different stages of readiness for reconnecting

• The ways Shannon keeps in touch with her (many!) non-local friends

• The beauty of saying yes to the moment, the person, the invitation

• The power of surprising yourself

Through laughter, honesty, and plenty of real-life wisdom, this conversation reminds us that friendship isn’t about having it all figured out — it’s about continuing to show up and say yes.

Shannon found this song. It is so perfect for this episode that we had to add it here:

"Find Your People" by Drew Holcolmb and the Neighbors

Has your definition of a good friend changed as you’ve gotten older?

Do different friendships meet different needs?

These are some of the questions sisters Tara and Tina explore in this episode of Messy Middlescence.

More and more research reminds us how vital friendships and social connections are as we age. But how we experience friendship — and what we need from it — shifts over time. Each of us brings our own mix of circumstances, energy, and values to the relationships that sustain us.

Tara and Tina open this season’s theme of Friendship and Connection by sharing their own stories and reflections:

what friendship looks like now, what makes it hard, and why it’s worth the effort.

It’s a thoughtful conversation about the comfort of being known, the vulnerability of reaching out, and the small, steady ways we can keep our friendships — and ourselves — growing.

Episode Highlights

• The difference between being friendly and being friends
• How a small gesture — a phone number, a walk, a random “yes” — can blossom into a lasting bond
• Why time and shared routines help deepen friendships
• The quiet value of casual, everyday connections
• The rarity (and joy) of finding true couple friendships
• The ongoing challenge of finding time to nurture our relationships
• The guilt or sadness that can come from feeling there’s no bandwidth for new friends
• Using walks or movement to keep friendships as healthy as our bodies
• How social media shapes connection differently across generations

One of the highlights: Tina shares her experience of completing her first-ever triathlon. It pushed her outside her comfort zone and reminded both of us how often, in midlife, we shy away from new challenges. Her story is a lesson in trying something different, facing nerves, and the joy of doing it alongside a friend.

That spirit of connection is what led us to choose our theme for Season 3: friendship and connection. We’ll be exploring the many ways relationships shift in midlife — how they deepen, how they sometimes fade, and why nurturing them matters so much as we move through this stage of life.

We’d love to hear from you, too: What role do friendships play in your life right now? Have you tried something new recently that surprised you? We would love to hear your answers to these questions.

In this episode you’ll hear:

• • Why summer can feel both precious and pressured — and what that means in midlife
  • How the school year can offer a fresh start for everyone, not just kids
  • Tina’s reflections on her first triathlon and the lessons it taught about trying new things, facing fears, and leaning on friends
  • Our reveal of Season 3’s theme — friendship and connection — and a look at the conversations to come

In this short but heartfelt finale, they look back on the 20 (!!) episodes of Season 2 and discuss their favorite episodes, the moments that moved them, and the conversations that made them laugh, cry, and grow. They also share some behind-the-scenes information, talk listener growth, and dream aloud about what’s ahead for Season 3. This episode is as much about looking back as it is about looking ahead—with gratitude, perspective, and hope. If you’re in your own season of change or reflection, we hope it helps you feel seen, inspired, and ready for summer.

🎧 Highlights include:

• The success of using a theme throughout the season and how that allowed us to delve deep into a topic but still explore and discuss other issues and ideas.
• The continual presence of grief and loss in our lives.
• The episodes that made us laugh the hardest and cry the most.
• Why Anne Marie Lockmyer’s insights were a game-changer—and why Steve Toman’s episode was the perfect season closer
• The evolving rhythm and confidence in our podcasting process
• Why listener connection and feedback matter more to us than downloads
• What we’re hoping to explore next (hint: “elder-essence” might be on the horizon!)
• Summer intentions: from triathlon training and beach weeks to fresh tomatoes and Great Gatsby rereads
• The bittersweet beauty of this phase of life—and how Messy Middlescence helps us feel a little less alone

In this episode of Messy Middlescence, we talk with our longtime friend Steve Toman about the unexpected turns of midlife and what it means to find purpose again. From mortgage banking to EMT training to smoking brisket at 4 a.m., Steve shares how listening to his interests opened up a whole new season of meaning, joy and contribution.

What shines most in this conversation is Steve’s unwavering love and admiration for his wife Kelly, his pride in their three daughters, and his desire to continue contributing—not just to a workplace, but to his community and family. His story is a reminder that the small choices, chance encounters, and brave pivots we make in midlife can have powerful, unexpected, and lasting impact.

Episode Highlights:

• Steve shares his winding journey from a global childhood and decades in mortgage banking to a fulfilling and unexpected midlife reinvention.
• He opens up about being downsized in his 50s, working through identity loss, and rediscovering purpose as an EMT volunteer and barbecue pitmaster.
• His deep love and admiration for his wife Kelly—and the strength of their partnership—shine through as he reflects on navigating life’s many transitions together.
• He discusses the emotional realities of retirement planning, letting go as his daughters grow up, and how staying active and engaged helps him feel useful and connected.
• Steve emphasizes the importance of both financial preparation and staying open to surprise—how a roadside sign or casual joke can spark a new chapter.
• He reflects on the legacy of his parents’ retirement planning and shares the values he hopes to pass on to his daughters.
• Travel, service, curiosity, and community emerge as key ingredients in Steve’s “semi-retirement”—a season of contribution, discovery, and unexpected joy.

This may sound like an odd way to introduce Tim and our discussion with him --but it perfectly captures Tim’s unique personality and skill set. He’s the sibling you call in a pinch - resourceful, unflappable, and endlessly loyal.

Tim is the 5th of our 7 siblings (and coincidentally the 5th sibling to be interviewed on Messy Middlescence) and he very recently turned 51. Tim is a problem solver, a people person of the highest order, a hilarious storyteller, goal-oriented, and, yes, famously stubborn. In our family he is known for saying “I know a guy…” or “I have a buddy…” always leading into either a wild story or an impressive display of his vast network of friends and colleagues.

We are excited to talk with Tim about his middlescence journey and to give our Messy Middlescence audience the opportunity to get to know him.  Some of the topics we delve into with Tim include the following:

• Tim’s circuitous journey to a rewarding and successful career;
• The important skills he learned in his non-career jobs which ultimately set him up for success in his career;
• A lively debate on the importance of luck/chance in any career;
• His desire to volunteer and devote more time to his many interests when he retires;
• The key lessons he has learned thus far which made a huge impact on his life including the need to prioritize what is important and learning how to do the hard things we would rather avoid;
• Pride in his family and their beautiful, messy “differences”.
• How middle age has shifted his goals to be more about his children and retirement
• The difficulties of the physical changes that occur in middle age; he simply can’t athletically do what he did 10 years ago;
• His thoughts on retirement; how he will likely not stop working completely but transition to a less stressful job.

In this timely episode, Tara Conti Bansal and Christina Conti Donovan dive into the whirlwind of graduation season, sharing personal stories, favorite traditions, and dozens of creative and meaningful gift ideas for high school and college grads. Whether you're shopping for your own child, a godchild, a family friend, or a neighbor, Tara and Tina offer insights that blend sentimentality with practicality — perfect for marking one of life's biggest transitions.

🎁 Topics Covered:

• Personal Graduation Memories: Watches, teddy bears, class rings, and sentimental keepsakes that stood the test of time.
• High School vs. College Gifts: Why it's easier to shop for high school grads and when to opt for cash.
• Classic & Practical Gift Ideas:
  • Jewelry, luggage, digital photo frames
  • Toolboxes, monogrammed items, travel accessories
  • Coffee makers, electric kettles, portable steamers, and power banks
• Thoughtful Personal Touches:
  • Personalized quote books or Shutterfly creations
  • Music playlists with shared memories
  • Framed photo collages from school years
• Top Book Recommendations:
  • Make Your Bed – William McRaven
  • This is Water – David Foster Wallace
  • How to Be a Grownup – R. Grimberg
  • The Psychology of Money – Morgan Housel
  • Designing Your Life – Burnett & Evans
  • …and many more
• Financially Savvy Gifts:
  • Roth IRA starter contributions
  • Gift cards or money with a meaningful token
  • Financial planning session(s) for new grads
• Gender and Age Considerations:
  • Why shopping for boys or college grads can be trickier
  • Gender-neutral and location-based gift ideas (e.g. city guidebooks)
• Creative Pairings:
  • Stationery with pens for thank-you notes
  • Money inside keepsake boxes, mugs, or cookbooks
  • Combining sentimental and practical into one thoughtful package

✨ Tara and Christina remind us that graduation gifts don’t have to be extravagant — the best gifts are thoughtful, useful, or personally significant. Whether you’re leaning practical or nostalgic, this episode will help you celebrate your graduate meaningfully and memorably.

So, it may seem a bit strange, but in our episode today we recommend and discuss a podcast separate from ours which we think does a great job confronting the questions of life purpose and meaning. The podcast is titled “The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos” and the episode we discuss is “How to Find Your Purpose” which features Dr. Jordan Drumet.

Dr. Santos and Dr. Drumet contend that purpose does not need to be some grand goal or need to save the world. Rather, they view purpose with a “little p” and believe that it is the “seemingly small and everyday actions” that can provide purpose and meaning in our lives. Their perspective on purpose with a “little p” makes the question of purpose much more accessible. They give many real-life examples of “little p” along with practical steps and methods to help individuals find their own “little p’s”. 

We hope you will listen to their podcast AND our discussion of it. In either order. Some of the ideas you will hear in our episode include:

• Our lives do not and should not have one big purpose; it is unrealistic and intimidating;
• “little p” purpose involves following and doing the things that bring you joy and fulfillment; most people have many/multiple “little p’s” in their life;
• The importance of understanding the differences between our “essential” self and our “social” self (as defined by Martha Beck) and the difficulties of truly listening to our “essential” self;
• The danger of losing the sense of joy in an activity or interest when it becomes tied to money or success;
• The pressure to do what we excel at or what comes easiest;
• The benefits of creating/creativity without worrying about the results;
• Resisting the urge to push our children towards a specific path or to force our expectations on to them;
• The process of finding “little p’s” in your life can help everyone, regardless of age, income or status (i.e. not just for the wealthy and privileged) but requires time and patience.
• The idea of a “life review” before you reach your deathbed.

In today’s episode we speak with Margie Zable Fisher about her new book, The Cabernet Club, her mother, writing fiction and Margie’s own middlescence journey. There are so many topics we wanted to delve into with Margie who left her long-time career in PR to become a full-time writer after age 50. Margie (as was her mother) is both a huge proponent, as well as a prime example, of the importance of using your middle age years to create the life you want. Margie introduces the idea of “empowered aging” as she discusses the challenges and successful steps she embarked on when she turned 50.

We hope you find our conversation with Margie as delightful and fascinating as we did.

Some of the many topics we discuss include:

• “The Margie Project” which was a year of intentional experiences when she turned 50 and how it ultimately left her feeling better and more empowered;
• The importance of friendship – especially as we age – along with the idea that being a friend is a skill that we can learn and improve;
• Margie’s loss of her mother, the promise she made to her, and how that changed her life;
• How and why she shifted careers from PR to freelance writing;
• The steps Margie took to learn how to write fiction
• The belief that it is possible to have a happy retirement on a budget;
• The comparisons between Rona Grable and Debbie Gordon, the protagonist of The Cabernet Club.
• The plans for the next two books which will continue with The Cabernet Club characters.

As we continue our series this season on grief and loss, our guest today is Colleen Albright, who graciously and courageously shares her story of unthinkable losses. She shares her story in hopes that it will help others.

Colleen's life was a tapestry of joy and challenges, raising her children and thriving in a career she loves. On December 1^st 2022, a seemingly ordinary day in Coleen’s life, everything changed for her. And then it changed again. And again. In less than a year, Colleen experienced the deaths of her teenage son, her mother, her father and underwent a divorce.

She experienced a “before and after” that “obliterated” the person she was. Her story is not an easy one to hear but she tells it with a poise and grace that astounded us. Colleen offers many insights into navigating midlife's unpredictable challenges with courage and hope including:

• There is no blueprint for grief. It is not linear. It is messy. And everyone grieves in different ways.
• Grief is exhausting; grief is work.
• For those who lose loved ones, you never get over it and it is important to embrace and accept that. There is no going back to who you were. There is no “normal” anymore.
• Grief support groups are similar to finding a therapist – you don’t always click and it might take some effort to find one that you connect with and will help you.
• The people that helped Colleen the most were not the ones she would have expected before this happened. Many people - no matter how much they care - just do not know what to do to support someone deeply grieving.
• The feeling of time changes in grief. It progresses but feels different.
• Let your grieving person talk. It is a gift for them to tell stories, memories and talk about their loved one.
• There is no need to say anything to a grieving person. Do not say that it will be ok; do not say they need to stop crying or take a deep breath. Allow each person to grieve in the way they need to; allow them to be and do whatever they need.
• The “fog” of grief is real and can last a long time.

In today’s episode we interview our sister-in-law, Dr. Alexa Dare, Ph.D (Alex is married to our brother, Patrick, the 6^th of the 7 siblings in the Conti family). In the early minutes of our interview, Alex describes herself as a seeker and, as the interview unfolds, we learn exactly why. In describing her childhood, her professional life, her love of travel and the outdoors we see the true embodiment of that definition. And while for some people these qualities might diminish with age, as Alex approaches her 50^th birthday, her desire to learn new things, to strive for a deeper understanding of the world and to embrace new challenges is as strong as ever. But Alex’s middlescence journey is not without its own uncertainties and questioning struggles.

We hope you will join us as we discuss these challenges with Alex along with the following:

• • Her childhood in Canada and the many places she has lived and traveled since then;
  • Her “need” for time outdoors and her love of nature;
  • The appeal of “doing nothing” and the difficulties of trying to plan such a thing;
  • The plans for her next two big adventures;
  • Her middlescence professional struggles;
  • The generational differences around the definition of and questions about middle age;
  • How to measure and define happiness and success;
  • Her superpower of “adaptability”;
  • What she is most proud of;
  • Reframing the idea of retirement around work and time commitments; “working less and with more flexibility"

In regard to (peri)menopause, it has been reported that most doctors receive only 1-2 hours total in their training. And while menopause is a natural process, there are at least 24 possible symptoms that can range in intensity from mere nuisance to life-altering. It is an extremely important quality of life issue for middle-aged women and those that love them. For those of us currently in mid-life, we are fortunate to live in a time when research, knowledge and attitudes about (peri)menopause are changing.

We are absolutely thrilled to discuss all this with one of the trailblazers leading the charge for this change. Carin Luna-Ostaseski is on a mission to transform how women experience (peri)menopause. She is the creator of “Hot or Just Me,” a website that offers a comprehensive platform integrating informational resources, products and compassionate community support around (peri)menopause. Carin’s own experiences prompted the creation of her website. Carin’s approach to managing (peri)menopause symptoms is rooted in self-care: women need to give themselves the time and energy to acknowledge and treat their symptoms.

We hope this episode provides invaluable advice and support to women and their loved ones. Our show notes are full of helpful links and additional information.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• • Carin’s incredible story of being a trailblazer in the truest sense; the many lives she has led up to this point and her willingness to embrace change.
  • The importance of finding a good doctor along with tips on how to do so.
  • Being aware of our mental and emotional state during (peri)menopause and the need to “clean up our messes” and find either traditional or non-traditional support.
  • The lack of awareness in the workplace of the effect of (peri)menopause symptoms on women and ways to change this.
  • The importance of teaching young people a more complete picture of sex hormones and how they change throughout life instead of concentrating on one phase.
  • The need for more information and awareness of andropause and the ways this can be a source of connection for partners during this time of life.
  • The amazing products available to help treat and manage symptoms.
  • The importance of self-care.
  • The joy of having something that is just “yours”.

Today’s episode highlights what we learned and experienced through these interviews with Brett and Anne-Marie. We hope our discussion helps bring more clarity and positive energy to this emotional and difficult - but unavoidable and important topic. We encourage you to listen and hope you will contact us with any feedback and the impact these episodes had on you and your middlescence journey.

As we continue with this season’s theme of grief – we are especially grateful to our next guest. Brett Danko lost his beloved wife, Dawn, last March. She was 55 and had been fighting cancer for several years. Brett’s middlescence journey has been filled with what for many of us is our absolute worst nightmare.

Brett’s ability to be “an open book” and thoughtfully and stoically detail his last few years is a testament to his strength of character along with his innate abilities as an amazing teacher. 

Take a deep breath, then listen and learn as we discuss Brett’s experience of grief and loss that touches upon a wide range of topics including:

• • The importance of not holding emotions back and having those conversations where you tell the people you love how you feel;
  • The impact and difficulties respective to a quick death versus a long and painful illness;
  • The necessity of treating the people you love with kindness every day;
  • How it is never too late to create an emotional link with people;
  • Remembering that success is ultimately having people that love and care about you;
  • Why middlescence is the time to be a little selfish and to do the things you want to do with the people you want to be with;
  • The value of spending time with people who are going through a difficult situation regardless of whether that situation is permanent or not;
  • The idea of an emotional bucket that you control who fills and empties it;
  • Providing continued support to people in grief by reaching out via text, phone or an offer to come by AFTER the first 3 months;
  • The decision to create and then fulfill your legacy.

We feel strongly that our interview with Anne-Marie is one that every person – regardless of age and circumstance – can benefit from. At some point in our lives, someone we love or care deeply for will undergo a devastating loss. While our intent maybe to provide help, support and comfort, we often do not know what to do or say. And perhaps – even worse – we do or say the absolute worst thing. Anne-Marie provides extremely practical advice and concrete examples on how to help someone who is grieving. Despite the difficult topic, Anne-Marie brings hope and positive energy to our conversation. 

We hope you will join us as we educate ourselves about grief and discuss with Anne-Marie the following topics:

Anne-Marie’s captivating and inspiring personal story which details her own experience with devastating grief and her journey to becoming a grief recovery specialist;

How grief is a natural part of any significant loss (not just death) and people should be educated about it and given tools to help process it;

Each grief journey is totally unique and has no timetable and no checklists;

Grief is a traumatic emotional injury and its recovery should be viewed similarly to a traumatic physical injury allowing as much time, space and help that is needed to heal;

What we should and should not say to someone who is grieving;

What is helpful and not helpful to someone who is grieving;

The idea that we as a society/culture are not comfortable with unhappy feelings and we need to learn to get comfortable being uncomfortable;

It is impossible to talk someone out of being sad.

We hope you listen and find this episode as valuable and helpful as we did.

May we suggest a more nuanced approach? As January unfolds, spend some time thinking about your holiday(s). What were your high points? Replay those moments that brought you joy over and over as we traverse these long winter months. And then try welcoming January with a theme or some positive or fun intentions (definitely no resolutions or promises). Do not be afraid to do this slowly. There is no rush! All of 2025 stretches in front of us.

We hope you will join us as Tara and Tina do all these things as we ease our way out of the holidays and into 2025. We relive the high and low points of our holidays, talk about favorite things of 2024 and our intentions for 2025. We hope our discussion helps ease your transition away from the holidays and generates some gentle excitement for the upcoming year.

Although critics’ lists are sometimes helpful, Tina and Tara have found that those books recommended by family and friends usually resonate far more than those on the critics’ lists. It is with this mindset that they chose to do their own “best of” episode as 2024 comes to a close.

For Tara and Tina, “best of” means the books they enjoyed reading the most this past year. In this episode they discuss their favorite fiction and non-fiction books of this past year. They hope some of these titles make their way into your reading future. They would also love to hear some of your favorite books of 2024!

 Cue Tracey Willis Gates – self-proclaimed “kindness ambassador” and author of the book “The Power of A Few Kind Words: Create a More Meaningful Life, One Letter at a Time” which shows how important, how easy, and how meaningful kindness can be.

Gates’ book documents her transformational journey of writing a handwritten, unexpected letter of appreciation to a different person every day for one year. Tara and Tina both read Tracey’s book and feel this is a book everyone should read and can benefit from. We were so thrilled to speak with Tracey after reading her book and she does not disappoint.

Tracey is not advocating everyone imitate the impressive and daunting challenge she gave herself. Rather, she shows and shares through her journey the powerful impact of 1) being observant to the gifts and things we appreciate in the people we interact with and 2) the simple way that acknowledging these things through words can have.

We love her assertion that kindness is both a superpower AND a learned behavior. Our ability to be kind is strengthened and improved with practice - making kindness something we can all work on incorporating more intentionally into our daily life. But this is just one part of Tracey’s story. There are so many positive and inspirational messages in her book. Tracey’s challenge to herself, which transformed her life in so many ways, occurred during her middlescence years and she is a prime example that it is never too late to find your purpose. She passionately advocates for all the good things that happen as you age. And she demonstrates that a small series of seemingly unrelated steps can often lead to a serendipitous journey with unexpected and fulfilling results.

As we move into the holiday and gift-giving season, we hope Tracey’s many messages will inspire you to take the time to make connections and be more present to those around you and to practice your own small acts of kindness. They are free. And as Tracey’s stories show – a powerful medicine for both the giver and the recipient.

We love the idea of a day devoted to giving thanks but it is easy to lose sight of the true meaning of the day with the emphasis on food and the stress that often comes with traveling and large groups. No matter where you are on the Thanksgiving spectrum, we hope you will join us as we discuss ideas and suggestions to emphasize gratitude and giving thanks this holiday.

We talk about our family traditions, offer easy ways to integrate gratitude into your day, and make some humble recommendations about the holiday meal. We also discuss some of the challenges of celebrating Thanksgiving during middlescence.

In today’s episode we discuss with her:

• how she has changed for the better as she has aged
• the significance of life experiences to her work as an artist
• cherishing these last years with her kids at home
• the importance of having a partner who supports and help you achieve your goals
• two pieces of theatre that inspire her own writing
• the emergence of health issues for the first time
• what she is most proud of
• her courage in sharing her gifts with the world.

 In “Being Able to Say Yes”, Anne recognizes how fortunate she is to have the opportunity and choice to make this change. As the title of this episode implies, this has been a positive change for her and her family and Anne emphasizes throughout our interview, “this is what is right for right now”. Anne imparts wisdom and insight into both the practicalities of everyday life as well as adjusting to a significant change.

 In this episode we discuss the following with Anne:

• The unique challenges of her home/family as her workplace – highlighting the similarities and differences between her corporate role and her role at home; 
• The “constant juggle” of parenting and work schedules which for many families is a continual struggle. Anne credits the lessening of this “juggle” and the ability to always say yes as the most important factor in her decreased stress levels;
• The challenges of having no defined schedule and/or commitments but also being protective of this unscheduled time which allows Anne to take advantage of opportunities as they happen;
• The joys of a free-time bucket list and the misery of meal planning
• The need to find “me” time and setting boundaries when the tasks and days at home are seemingly endless;
• The joys and struggles of changing seasons
• The importance of doing your best to change the things you can when it comes to less-than-ideal tasks or the environment you might find yourself in;
• The significance of using your core values to stay intentional with your time and choices.

This past January, a guest essay was published in The New York Times titled, “Train Yourself to Always Show Up” by Rabbi Sharon Brous. This essay, which is excerpted from her book, The Amen Effect, made a profound impression on both Tara and Tina. It was an article and topic they had planned to discuss in the future, and in light of the recent personal circumstances, the timing felt right to begin the season with these topics.

In this episode, Tina and Tara discuss and explore the beautiful words and ideas from Rabbi Brous’s article, which can act as a guiding light for those in middlescence. 

These include:

• the importance of fighting the natural instinct to withdraw - regardless of whether you are the one grieving or the one trying to support someone grieving;
• the need for community and bearing witness both in joy and in suffering;
• how losing a friend differs from losing a family member;
• the loss of rituals and traditions around grief in modern society and its implications for both individuals and communities.

This episode is the first of several that will attempt to tackle these difficult and painful topics.

Here they return to the “5 Essential Elements of Well Being” and focus on the ones that have not been explored in the previous episodes: Health (physical and mental); Social Relationships, and Community Engagement. Tara defines each of these remaining categories and discusses the possible and various ways to achieve them.

Tara reiterates the need to just start thinking about these – not just from a retirement planning perspective – but for anyone seeking a change in their life for the better.

Al went through middlescence some time ago (he is 81) but Tara and Tina found they often referred to their father as they discussed retirement – particularly in the previous Timeless Happiness episodes. They realized that their parents exemplify many of the lessons Tara shares and discusses in her Timeless Happiness classes.

By focusing on Al’s retirement story (their mother declined to be interviewed), many of the challenges and joys of retirement that have been theoretically discussed in the Timeless Happiness episodes are brought to life.

Al shares his wisdom and experiences to detail a retirement journey that, while still ongoing, has successfully moved through the different phases of retirement and overcome many of the typical issues. Through careful planning AND being open to some unexpected occurrences, Al and Tori created a retirement that fulfilled some of their lifelong dreams, reflects their values, and makes them happy.

Tina and Tara discuss with Al:

• His initial vision of retirement and how this changed;
• His and Tori’s dream of building/designing their own home;
• The importance of easing into a new home and community;
• The difficulties of downsizing;
• His decision to go back to work as a consultant 18 months after retiring;
• The importance of hobbies and staying busy;
• The motivation and planning behind their move into a Continuing Care Community;
• His words of wisdom including to be patient, accept that change (despite meticulous planning) is inevitable, and why he does not worry.

Tara outlines the challenges and uncertainties that can affect financial retirement planning including longevity, inflation, market volatility and unexpected life events. She gives special attention to concerns around inflation and social security.

Together, Tara and Tina explore concepts such as net worth statements, retirement projections, and budget tracking. They stress the importance of using a financial advisor and how to find one you trust.

They continue to focus on how to spend money in ways that bring happiness and peace of mind. Whether you are just starting your retirement planning or fine-tuning existing plans, this episode hopefully will provide you with the tools, information and resources you need to be financially ready for retirement.

Tara challenges us to consider our personal priorities and values in viewing our financial situations. She stresses the need for a healthy and balanced relationship with money that allows us to both enjoy the present AND plan for the future. She reminds us that money should be viewed as a tool that helps us do the things we want in life.

Tara ends the episode by introducing the “3 essential questions” by George Kinder to help change our perspective about the importance of money in our lives and its role in our happiness. This episode hopefully makes us look at money differently and helps us re-evaluate our relationship with it.

In this episode we discuss with Matt the following:

• • His lifelong curiosity, his passion for exploration and his eagerness to try new things
  • Reflections on his personal and professional achievements
  • The struggles of these last years of his career
  • The impact of his parent’s midlife strife on his teenage years and his own middlescence experience
  • The tension between wanting to leave the corporate world and the concern for financial security and healthcare
  • The need to not take life too seriously and to give oneself time to explore and grow
  • His hopes of pursuing his neglected interests of travel, painting and playing music

We hope you enjoy putting “a voice to Matt’s name” and hearing his perspectives on many of the middlescence milestones.

They discuss trying to design ideal weeks for retirement, including the influence of a spouse or partner, free time availability, and shifting from a Monday to Friday routine. They also emphasize the importance of adapting structures, different seasons, and being open to new possibilities in the next phase of life.

They explore the concept of ikigai and finding purpose. Additionally, they delve into the power of contribution and leveraging your knowledge. The hosts encourage listeners to think about their ideal days and use journaling to explore their visions for the future. They emphasize the significance of considering the deathbed questions and living with purpose throughout the messy middle of life.

The interview with Beth, in which she so courageously shares so much of herself and her story, portrays an extremely realistic journey to retirement.  From her dedication to her job as a school counselor to concerns about her family's health, Beth reveals the layers of complexity that impact her decision to retire. Although the specifics of her retirement years are still unknown, Beth has strong values of family, personal growth and making a positive impact that will define and shape the specifics of her next chapter.  Most importantly, Beth emphasizes the importance for patience, embracing change and self-reflection which are excellent lessons for anyone contemplating a big change.

Acknowledging both the complexity and size of this topic, they begin by exploring the concepts of fluid and crystallized intelligence and the changes that occur with these in middle age. They also address the challenges and risks associated with transitioning careers and the various life aspects and pressures that can influence this.

Tackling the notion that it might be too late to start over, they encourage listeners to embrace change and identify their strengths to find fulfilling work. They promise to revisit this issue in upcoming episodes.

Kelly's own experiences, as well as her inspiring stories of others, highlight the importance of staying curious, embracing change, and continually learning throughout life. She also discusses the concept of “Blue Zones”, where people live longer and healthier lives, and which emphasize the cognitive and social benefits of staying active and engaged.

Overall, this episode offers valuable insights and advice for those in middlescence looking to age intentionally and age well.

As a result, we have titled this episode “Smooth Sailing.” But do not be misled by the title. There are just as many significant lessons and valuable wisdom to be gleaned from this episode as from some of our others.

In this episode you get to hear about Nimit’s:

• Reflections on Happiness, Passion and Upcoming Changes
• Middle Age and Professional Growth Reflections and Shifting Priorities
• Struggles with Fitness, Parenting, and Feeling Out of Sync With His Friends
• The impact of reading the book, Die with Zero: Getting All You Can From Your Money and Your Life by Bill Perkins 
• Life Quakes and Their Resulting Personal Growth
• Desired Legacy and the Importance of Relationships
• to him
• Favorite Activities

We hope you enjoy this episode as much as we did.

• Where did the idea for the Favorite Things come from?
• How the Conti Family has changed the original idea to something that they do virtually and annually.
• What Tina and Tara like about the Favorite Things concept
• They share some of their favorite things from 2023 and previous years.

This is our last podcast episode for 2023. We will be taking a holiday break until after the new year.

We wish you a wonderful holiday season filled with love and joy.

At the end of the interview, we tried something new with Tina and I discussing the interview and what stood out for each of us. We then present a poem, "The Happiest Day" by Linda Pastan which beautifully articulates the feeling of knowing yet not believing that your parents will die.  

Alan shares his inspiring life story, starting with his journey from almost failing out of college to becoming a renowned library director. He discusses his passion for libraries and the joy he finds in his work, as well as the challenges and rewards of leadership. Alan emphasizes the importance of relationships in both personal and professional life, highlighting how building trust and connections with others can lead to success. He shares his strategies for achieving a healthy work-life balance, including the significance of exercise for mental well-being. Looking ahead, Alan discusses his plans for retirement and how he hopes to continue contributing to his community through teaching and other activities. This episode offers valuable insights into finding meaning, navigating change, and prioritizing relationships in middleescence.

This is the first of two episodes with Alan.

This episode focuses more on his professional life and growth. The next episode will talk about recently losing his mother and the journey of having her move in with them for 6.5 years before going into an assisted living home.

Here are some of the highlights from today's episode:

• Alan struggled his first two years of college and attributes his success ever since to setting goals. 
• Alan has a strong desire to help in the community.
• A special memory was celebrating his oldest graduating from high school AND also the christening of their youngest child the same weekend.
• How having a 1.6 mile commute and maturity has helped him have the best work life balance of his life to date, even working 10 hour days.
• Alan did not start exercising regularly until his father passed away. His father's death motivated him to take better care of himself.
• How Alan started exercising for his physcial health and was surprised at how much it has helped him with his mental health too.
• Alan is making a concious effort to work on friendships outside of his family, both old friends and more recent ones.
• Alan bought a clarinet and has been playing which is "good for his soul."
• After Alan retires from being the library director, he is considering adjunct teaching.
• The key to being a good leader is to hire the right people and help them be their best. 
• He enjoys his job - the variety and challenge. It keeps him humble.
• Relationships are a focus both professionally and personally.

Some of the highlights from this episode are:

• The term "happy social work" to describe the work Amy does and wants to do.
• Amy likes her job because it is not very stressful and therefore leaves her the ability and emotional resources to take care of her family and household.
• Amy does not think of herself as the age she is. She thinks of herself as younger and that can be hard because her body cannot do what she expects it to do.
• She hopes to retire in about five years when her youngest child will graduate from high school.
• Her health issues are affecting her happiness.
• The hardest time of her life was after her divorce with a 1-year-old and trying to figure out what she wanted to do.
• In 2019 she started having heart palpitations. She thinks they may have been related to menopause. She had different physical issues that no one could explain. No one mentioned menopause.
• How no one seems to talk about post menopause.
• She is exercising less and is not able to do what she used to do. She is trying to figure out if it is normal aging or is there some other issue(s) going on. 
• She started exercising regularly again around age 50. She loved doing Crossfit with some of her neighbors and then started swimming competitively and running.
• What is most important to her and her legacy is focusing on her children and making sure they have what they need.
• How hormone replacement got a bad rap.
• She knows she wants to be more involved in her next phase. She is looking forward to having the freedom to do what they want and travel where they want.
• We loved the advice she would give to her younger self - to loosen up, go with the flow, don't sweat the small stuff and live a little more. Great advice for most of us!

Highlights from this episode include:

• What is Tom and Anne’s primary focus?
• Tom’s excellent advice on setting boundaries with work. He tries hard to be a good role model and not do email or calls on the weekend or in the evenings.
• How much easier it is to make a desired change, like setting a new boundary when you are starting a new role or at a new company.
• Tom is where he had hoped to be in his mid 40s.
• How most of his worries about the future are about or for his kids.
• How things have been since Anne changed her job – meeting or exceeding expectations
• How intentional and thoughtful Tom is around wanting to maximize his life – what do they value and how and where do they want to spend their time? They are very family focused.
• Tom wonders if he has overly high expectations from his job. He wants his job to feel fulfilling.
• The difference between success and fulfillment for Tom.
• His desire for a “reset” like Anne is taking now.
• His desire and hopes to set himself up to work differently in 5-10 years with more flexibility and hopefully part time.
• Although Tom said he doesn’t think about legacy that much, he does think about being a good role model for his kids and how he hopes they will think about life. He wants to spend time with his children so they “feel the love.”
• Tom thinks youth sports are important to learn discipline, responsibility, and the value of hard work.
• The highlight of the interview is at the end when Tom answer’s the one question he thought we would ask and we didn’t (although we will start asking this question in the future!) “What would Tom do if he did not have to work?” Tom has a surprising and unique answer that I am glad to now know and would never have guess in a million years.

This episode is with Anne Meilke Conti. She is the wife of our youngest brother, Tom, and at the time of this interview had recently quit her job to spend more time with her family. Anne and Tom have three children. Anne has had a successful career for the past 20 years working for two healthcare information technology companies. We were excited to talk to Anne to learn more about her and this major change in her life. She had many words of wisdom and eye-opening perspectives for us. She is an admired business leader AND is an amazing mother who prioritizes her family and relationships.

There was so much good stuff that we almost made this interview into a two parter. After some debate, we decided to keep it as one longer episode.

Although Anne is on the younger end of “middlescence”, Anne’s courage in making such a significant job and life change will inspire anyone contemplating taking a leap that greatly alters your life.

In this episode we ask Anne:     

•      Why did she decide to leave her job?
•       How long was she thinking about doing this?
•       What does she like to do? (We think many of us can relate to her answer to this question)
•       What were the obstacles she had to overcome to make this change happen?
•       What does she want to do during this time when she is not working outside the home?
•       You must listen to the end to hear her wise response to “How would she rate her happiness on a scale of 1-10?"
•       What feels most scary to her right now?
•       What is most important to her during this time of her life?

Highlights from “Taking the Leap” with Anne Conti       

•       The need for external deadlines to help motivate us to take action or make a decision.
•       The common fear that if you quit your job, you will not be able to find something else and then be banished from the workforce forever or stuck in a worse job.
•       It is not retirement but rather a pause or a sabbatical.
•       It is much easier to make hard decisions when you don't think of them as final.
•       Anne felt pride and received positive feedback for stepping away and taking a career break. She hopes she is an example and role model, so that other people do it too. She wants those who take a break or consider leaving their job to believe and have faith that there's something better.
•       Anne eloquently discusses both the opportunities and the issues co-vid caused in our workplaces and careers. There are lasting impacts of co-vid on our jobs and on each of us.
•       Childcare. It is difficult and frustrating to hear firsthand the stress and problems childcare causes working mothers. How and why is this still such as issue for American working mothers?
•       Anne worried about how quitting could possibly have negative ramifications for the company. This shows her thoughtfulness and concern for her previous employer and others.
•       We loved how Anne described herself and Tom as “thoughtful spenders” rather than “good budgeters”. We suspect many people view themselves this way.  Being a thoughtful spender and having a thorough knowledge of their financial situation helped Anne feel comfortable to take this “Big Leap.”.
•       Anne’s concern about the changes or impact on her relationship now that she is not working and holding as high power a job as Tom. This is new and different and disrupting their old system.
•       Anne admits that she may need to re-evaluate how she views success, accomplishment, and even herself without having a high-powered job. 
•       Her number one goal while she is not working is “just to move more in her daily life”. How simple is that! We think everyone can relate to this. We love how she intends to get steps in by “just living, doing and being present with her family."

In this episode:

• We discuss why we decided to do this podcast
• Where the name came from
• Why we are different
• Learn about Tara's background and where she is now in her life