Professor Wilding shares his expert perspective on why the "Cost to Serve" must be applied to risk, how to segment vendors effectively, and why "Robustness" is no longer enough in a volatile global economy.

🕒 Timestamps:

• 00:00 – Introduction: Bringing the Academic Lens to TPRM.
• 03:45 – Richard’s journey: From Engineering and the "Brit Industry" to OBE.
• 14:20 – Why "Efficiency" is a dangerous goal for modern supply chains.
• 25:10 – Resilience vs. Robustness: What’s the difference?
• 38:45 – The Cost to Serve: Why you shouldn't treat every vendor the same.
• 52:30 – Advice for the next generation of supply chain leaders.

SEO Keywords: #SupplyChain #Logistics #Procurement #RichardWilding #RiskManagement #Resilience #Strategy #OBE

Clarence, a Stanford-trained engineer and cybersecurity veteran, shares his unique perspective on the "assessor fatigue" felt by both sides of the table. They dive deep into how AI can move beyond just making existing processes "faster horses" and instead fundamentally change how trust is established between organizations.

🕒 Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction: Is TPRM falling behind the market?

03:45 – Clarence’s Journey: From Stanford to Anti-Money Laundering (AML)

12:10 – The "Assessor’s Dilemma": Why busy work doesn't always equal risk reduction

21:30 – The Pace of Change: Why traditional assessments are static in a dynamic world

30:50 – AI & Coverbase: Moving from manual checklists to automated trust

38:15 – The "Faster Horse" Problem: Re-imagining the future of TPRM

47:40 – Elevating the Job: How automation allows risk managers to focus on strategy

55:30 – Closing thoughts: Mapping out the next 5 years of TPRM

💡 Key Takeaways

• The Problem with Static Assessments: Clarence explains why an annual review is often obsolete the moment it's finished and how the pace of software updates requires a new approach to monitoring.
• Assessor Fatigue: Insight into why critical vendors feel "put through the wringer" and how this friction actually hinders true risk transparency.
• AI as an Efficiency Engine: How Coverbase uses AI to bridge the gap, allowing for a more holistic and real-time understanding of vendor security postures.
• Rethinking the Function: Why the industry needs to stop asking for "faster horses" (doing the same manual tasks quicker) and start looking for the "automobile" (fundamentally changing the workflow).

🔗 Connect & Resources

• Official Website: thirdpartytherapy.com
• Guest Info: Learn more about Clarence Chio and Coverbase at Clarence Chio | LinkedIn

Search & SEO

Keywords: #TPRM #ThirdPartyRisk #ClarenceChio #Coverbase #Cybersecurity #AI #RiskAutomation #VendorManagement #SupplyChainSecurity #ThirdPartyTherapy #Innovation

Episode Summary: How do you build a world-class Third-Party Risk Management (TPRM) function in a digital-first, fast-paced environment? In this episode of Third Party Therapy, Mike Day sits down with Mo Randeree from Atom Bank. Mo shares his journey from a PwC auditor to a TPRM leader, discussing how to break down the traditional silos between Procurement, Risk, and Resilience.

The highlight of this episode is Mo’s deep dive into the practical use of Google Gemini (AI) to automate risk assessments, moving the dial from "policing" the business to "partnering" with it.

🕒 Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction: Managing risk at the speed of a digital bank

03:45 – Mo’s Background: Stumbling into TPRM via PwC

12:10 – The Integrated Operating Model: Merging Procurement, TPRM, and Resilience

20:30 – Speed to Market: Why "Check-the-Box" compliance doesn't work in FinTech

28:50 – AI in Action: Using Google Gemini to solve the "data mountain" problem

37:15 – Shifting the Culture: Moving from a "No" function to a "Business Enabler"

45:40 – Proactive Supplier Management: Having hard conversations about control gaps

53:00 – Closing thoughts and advice for the next generation of risk leaders

💡 Key Takeaways

• The "One-Stop-Shop" Model: Discover how Atom Bank integrates procurement and risk into a single lifecycle, ensuring risk is considered at the start of a project, not as a final hurdle.
• Leveraging Generative AI: Mo explains the specific prompts and processes used with Google Gemini to digest complex supplier documents, allowing a lean team to achieve massive scale.
• Bridging the Gap: Practical tips on how to align the conflicting goals of Procurement (speed/cost) and Risk (safety/compliance).
• Relationship-Driven Risk: Why the most effective TPRM tool isn't a piece of software, but the ability to build trust across the organization.

🔗 Connect & Resources

• Official Website: thirdpartytherapy.com
• Join the Community: Sign up for our mailing list to receive our "AI in TPRM" guide.
• Guest Info: Connect with Mo Randeree on LinkedIn to follow his work at Atom Bank.

Search & SEO

Keywords: #TPRM #ThirdPartyRisk #AtomBank #GoogleGemini #GenerativeAI #RiskManagement #ProcurementStrategy #FinTech #BusinessResilience #ThirdPartyTherapy #SupplyChainRisk

Episode overview

Season 2 opens with a practical deep dive into one of the hardest problems in modern third-party risk management: understanding what sits beyond your immediate suppliers. Mike is joined by Layla White, founder of TechPassport, to unpack why fourth- and fifth-party dependencies remain opaque, how early-stage suppliers change the risk profile, and why traditional questionnaires and web-scraping approaches struggle to keep up with today’s supply chains.

The conversation blends lived experience from financial services procurement and vendor management with a grounded look at how supply chain mapping actually works in the wild, where outages, cloud concentration, geopolitics, and cyber incidents collide.

What you’ll hear in this episode

• Why fourth- and fifth-party risk is still a blind spot for many organisations
• The limits of questionnaires and AI/web-scraped data for mapping supply chains
• How to identify critical dependencies deeper in the supply chain
• The problem of hidden concentration risk (especially with cloud and shared infrastructure)
• Why small suppliers and early-stage tech firms introduce different resilience risks
• The importance of validating supplier-provided data rather than guessing from public sources
• How outages propagate through unseen dependencies
• Why supply chain risk now stretches beyond cyber into resilience, data, ESG, and modern slavery
• Where regulation is pushing firms to understand and evidence extended dependencies

Key takeaways

• Supply chain risk is no longer a third-party problem. The real fragility often sits further down the chain.
• Public signals and scraped data are useful clues, not ground truth. Critical dependencies usually only emerge when suppliers confirm them directly.
• Concentration risk is rarely obvious until something breaks. Mapping dependencies before an incident is the difference between response and surprise.
• Early-stage suppliers need structure and support to meet enterprise expectations, not just scrutiny.
• Effective TPRM is a system of approaches, not a single tool. Questionnaires, live data, mapping, and supplier engagement all have different strengths.

Guest bio

Layla White is the founder of TechPassport, a platform focused on improving how organisations gather and manage supplier information, map extended supply chains, and engage early-stage technology providers. Layla previously worked in financial services procurement and vendor management, where she experienced first-hand the friction, delays, and blind spots that exist in traditional third-party onboarding and supply chain visibility.

Who this episode is for

• Third-Party Risk and Operational Resilience leaders
• Procurement and Vendor Management teams
• Cyber and Cloud risk practitioners
• Risk, Compliance, and Resilience professionals
• Anyone grappling with fourth-party visibility, concentration risk, or supplier onboarding in complex ecosystems

Listen to the episode

🎧 Full episode: https://thirdpartytherapy.com

Tags / themes

TPRM, Fourth-Party Risk, Supply Chain Mapping, Concentration Risk, Operational Resilience, Early-Stage Suppliers, Cloud Dependencies, Cyber Resilience

Read Charlie's article on Taking a business-critical approach to supplier nth-party IT risk management

Distributed in conjunction with CEFPRO Connect

AI Unleashed: Transforming Third-Party Risk

Guest: Natalie Druckmann, Head of EMEA at Certa

Host: Mike Day

Episode Summary

How is artificial intelligence reshaping third-party risk management? In this episode, Mike Day speaks with Natalie Druckmann from Certa, exploring how AI can transform due diligence, regulatory compliance, and supplier oversight. Natalie shares her journey from delivery and procurement into technology leadership, before unpacking the real-world use cases that are redefining TPRM—from automating document review to interpreting complex regulations like DORA. Together, they discuss how organisations can move from spreadsheet chaos to continuous monitoring, and from compliance overhead to strategic insight.

Key Topics

• Natalie's path from practitioner to tech leader
• The evolution of TPRM tech: from Excel → platforms → modular AI solutions
• Industry maturity: financial services vs pharma, retail, and defence
• Using AI to analyse supplier evidence, interpret new regulations, and enable 'risk management by exception'
• Why 'process → people → platform' is the right order for success
• Common pitfalls in adopting technology
• The future of TPRM: faster onboarding, smarter risk insight, and human + AI collaboration

Memorable Quotes

“We fixed the problem of not knowing—and created the problem of knowing too much.”

“AI in TPRM isn’t about replacing people; it’s about freeing them to focus where it matters.”

“Process first, people second, platform third.”

Takeaways

✅ Start with why and who, before deciding what or how.

✅ Design your process first—technology won’t fix a broken one.

✅ Use AI for transparency, not black-box decisions.

✅ Adopt a base-plate approach: start simple, build as you mature.

✅ Aim for risk management by exception, not exhaustion.

Links & Resources

🌐 thirdpartytherapy.com – show archive

🤖 certa.ai – learn more about Certa’s AI-driven risk solutions

💬 Connect with Mike Day on LinkedIn for future episodes

Distributed with support from CEFPRO Connect

Published in partnership with CEFPRO Connect

Episode Summary: What does your Third-Party Risk Management (TPRM) process look like from the other side of the table? In this episode of Third Party Therapy, Mike Day is joined by Ian Ellis, an innovation expert who has spent years working with Microsoft for Startups and various tech accelerators.

Ian shares the "bruising" reality of how emerging tech companies experience corporate due diligence. They discuss why a "one-size-fits-all" questionnaire can paralyze a 5-person dev team and how organizations can adapt their risk appetite to foster innovation without compromising security.

🕒 Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction: The challenge of assessing small, high-impact suppliers

04:20 – Ian’s Journey: From corporate innovation to the startup trenches

11:50 – The "Startup View": How a 100-question spreadsheet feels to a founder

19:15 – The Resource Gap: Why startups don't have "Compliance Departments"

27:40 – Litmus Test: Does your process actually measure risk or just persistence?

35:10 – Right-Sizing Risk: How to scale assessments for emerging tech

44:30 – The Human Element: Building respect and transparency into the onboarding flow

52:15 – Closing thoughts: Moving toward a more inclusive TPRM ecosystem

💡 Key Takeaways

• The "Bruising" Effect: Understand the operational impact that heavy-handed corporate processes have on small, agile companies.
• Proportionality is Key: Why asking a 5-person startup for the same evidence as a global conglomerate is a barrier to entry for innovation.
• Contextual Due Diligence: Learn how to look past the "missing" controls to understand the actual risk profile of a niche technology provider.
• The Reputation Risk: How your onboarding process defines your company's reputation in the tech community—are you a partner or a hurdle?

🔗 Connect & Resources

• Official Website: thirdpartytherapy.com
• Join the Community: Sign up for our mailing list to receive our guide on "Right-Sizing TPRM for Startups."
• Guest Info: Connect with Ian Ellis and learn more about his work with emerging tech EnterpriseTech.London: Posts | LinkedIn

Search & SEO

Keywords: #TPRM #Startups #EmergingTech #Innovation #RiskManagement #ThirdPartyRisk #Procurement #FinTech #BusinessAgility #ThirdPartyTherapy #Podcast

Episode Summary: The volume of data in Third-Party Risk Management has become unmanageable for manual teams. In this episode of Third Party Therapy, Mike Day sits down with Aki Eldar, founder of Mirato, to discuss how Artificial Intelligence is moving from a "future concept" to a practical tool. Aki explains how AI can automate the heavy lifting of evidence analysis—reading SOC2s and ISO certs for you—so that risk professionals can focus on making actual decisions rather than just processing paperwork.

🕒 Timestamps

00:00 – Introduction: AI as a risk vs. an opportunity

03:15 – Aki’s 30-year journey: From Cybersecurity & DLP to TPRM

11:40 – The "Mountain of Evidence" problem in modern risk management

19:25 – How AI actually "reads" and validates third-party documentation

27:50 – "Shadow AI": Managing the risks of unauthorized AI use in your business

36:10 – Why AI won't replace the human-in-the-loop

44:30 – The "MVP" Strategy: Why you should start standalone and scale later

52:15 – Closing thoughts and how to avoid the "Everest" trap

💡 Key Takeaways

• Automated Analysis: Move beyond simple data collection. Learn how AI can cross-check supplier questionnaires against their actual evidence (like SOC2 reports) to find gaps instantly.
• The Productivity Shift: By automating the "boring" work, AI allows risk managers to focus on the 20% of high-risk cases that actually require human expertise.
• Managing Shadow AI: Aki shares critical insights on how to handle employees using tools like ChatGPT and the data privacy risks that come with "dirty" AI models.
• Don't Climb Everest at Once: Why a "Minimum Viable Product" (MVP) approach is the most successful way to implement AI without disrupting your entire organization.

🔗 Connect & Resources

• Official Website: thirdpartytherapy.com
• Join the Community: Sign up for our mailing list for the latest in AI and TPRM.

Search & SEO

Keywords: #AI #ArtificialIntelligence #TPRM #ThirdPartyRisk #RiskAutomation #Mirato #CyberSecurity #RiskManagement #DigitalTransformation #ThirdPartyTherapy #SupplyChainRisk

🕒 Timestamps

00:00 – Intro: Why Modern Slavery is a TPRM priority

04:15 – Shayne’s story: From the food industry to the front lines

11:30 – The "Invisible" Victim: Defining modern slavery today

19:45 – Why your current audit process might be missing the truth

28:10 – The tiers of risk: Going deeper than your primary suppliers

36:50 – Practical advice for risk managers: Trusting your gut

45:20 – The human cost of the "race to the bottom" on price

52:00 – Final thoughts and where to start

💡 Key Takeaways

• Beyond Compliance: Moving from the "UK Modern Slavery Act" checklist to active, ethical risk management.
• The Audit Trap: Why pre-announced audits allow exploiters to coach victims and hide evidence.
• The Power of Curiosity: Why asking "How is this price possible?" is your best defence against slavery in your supply chain.
• Operational Reality: Understanding that exploitation often hides in the recruitment and labor agencies used by your suppliers.

🔗 Connect & Resources

• Official Website: thirdpartytherapy.com
• Join the Community: Sign up for our mailing list to receive episode deep-dives and TPRM resources.
• Guest Info: Connect with Shayne Tyler [Insert LinkedIn/Website Link].

Search & SEO

• Keywords: #ModernSlavery #TPRM #SupplyChainEthics #RiskManagement #HumanRights #ThirdPartyRisk #ESG #Sustainability #ThirdPartyTherapy

Paul Huggett: What Does Community Due Diligence Deliver?

In this debut episode of Third Party Therapy, host Mike Day sits down with Paul Huggett, Managing Director at Hellios and former TPRM lead at major financial institutions like Nationwide and Lloyds Banking Group.

Here is the optimized, "copy-paste" set of show notes for Episode 1: Paul Huggett, designed to perform across Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube.

Show Notes: Paul Huggett | What Does Community Due Diligence Deliver?

Episode Summary: TPRM has moved from a "check-the-box" exercise to a high-stakes regulatory requirement. In this debut episode of Third Party Therapy, Mike Day is joined by Paul Huggett, Managing Director at Hellios and former TPRM lead at Nationwide and Lloyds. Paul shares his journey from "poacher to gamekeeper" and explains how the Community Due Diligence model is solving the industry's biggest headache: the "many-to-many" web of repetitive supplier questionnaires.

🕒 Timestamps (Clickable on YouTube)

00:00 – Introduction: The evolution of TPRM since the 90s

05:20 – Paul’s Journey: From Practitioner to Managing Director

12:45 – The "Many-to-Many" Problem: Why the current model is broken

18:10 – What is Community Due Diligence? (The "Collect Once, Share Many" model)

26:30 – Big Banks vs. Small Firms: How different sized companies benefit

34:15 – Crisis Management: Using community data during the Russia-Ukraine conflict

42:50 – The Future of Tech: Why AI is the "new cloud"

51:10 – The Golden Rule: Why technology won't solve a data problem

55:30 – Closing thoughts and how to get started

💡 Key Takeaways

• The Efficiency Win: In a community model, suppliers provide data once to a central "pool," which is then accessed by dozens of buying firms, saving thousands of hours in administrative work.
• Speed of Response: Learn how community models allowed firms to map their entire supply chain exposure to global conflicts in minutes rather than weeks.
• Avoid the "Shiny System" Trap: Paul warns against buying expensive workflow tools before you have a solid data strategy—don't just buy a "shinier problem" to grapple with.
• ESG & Pooled Audits: The next frontier is moving beyond data collection into virtual site visits and shared environmental, social, and governance assessments.

🔗 Connect & Resources

• Official Website: thirdpartytherapy.com
• Join the Community: Sign up for our mailing list for TPRM deep-dives.
• Guest Info: Learn more about Helios and Paul Huggett at [Insert Link].

Search & SEO (Optimized for YouTube)

Keywords: #TPRM #ThirdPartyRiskManagement #CommunityDueDiligence #SupplyChainRisk #Helios #FSQS #RiskManagement #FinancialServices #ThirdPartyTherapy #RegulatoryCompliance

Why not visit www.thirdpartytherapy.com to sign up for more information